2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

O2 IED, DYN OiED, XiED, X14iED, VIED, AFXiED related Issues

2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby ralph on Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:04 pm

It is warming up here in Raleigh[finally] and my 09 Street Glide is pinging on moderate throttle roll on. I have a Big sucker airbox and a D and D Fat cat exhaust system with the quiet baffle. The AFR has been checked and is within factory specs, just as Nightrider said it would be. Oil temps have been 180 to 200 degrees[measured in the oil pan and verified with a turkey fryer thermometer] when the weather has been in the low 80's. I have the Harley oil cooler installed. Is there any hope for the XiED's to be certified for the 09 touring models? If not, what does nightrider recommend? I love this forum.
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby ToBeFrank on Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:25 am

ralph wrote:It is warming up here in Raleigh[finally] and my 09 Street Glide is pinging on moderate throttle roll on. I have a Big sucker airbox and a D and D Fat cat exhaust system with the quiet baffle. The AFR has been checked and is within factory specs, just as Nightrider said it would be. Oil temps have been 180 to 200 degrees[measured in the oil pan and verified with a turkey fryer thermometer] when the weather has been in the low 80's. I have the Harley oil cooler installed. Is there any hope for the XiED's to be certified for the 09 touring models? If not, what does nightrider recommend? I love this forum.


Are you using a tuner (TTS, SEST)?
MyTune tuning software for SE Super Tuner (SEST), SE Race Tuner (SERT), and TwinScan II+: http://www.tunemyharley.com
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby spmullen on Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:13 am

We have not certified the IED's for the 09 Touring bikes. While there is a lot of promise in the new AFXiED, we are very conservative in our testing program. We had originally thought certification was going to occur for Daytona Bike Week. We were not happy with some of the results because we could not explain what the H-D ECM was telling us occassionly. Since our first concern is for riders, we deferred certification. If riders feel they needed something for their 09 Touring bike, they should persue other tuning aids. But our primary recommendation is to try to ride the bike as is. Many riders find that with an aftermarket exhaust upgrade and the HD heat diverters, the 09 bikes do cool down considerably after the first 1000-1500 miles. The only reliable reasonably low cost upgrade to cool the exhaust is the PowerCommander. But even this can cost $500-600 after custom tuning.

Software tuners like SERT/SEST/TTS are an option, but do create significant issues with your ECM warranty and by association, your engine warranty. So it is difficult to recommend software tuning for a new bike unless you are willing to give up large portions of your warranty. Because HD has been actively monitoring engine modifications, the probability of warranty issues is much higher than in the past.

I will continue to work on certification of the AFXiED's on the 09 Touring bikes. But I can not put a date on this project. The issues I seem to be trying to resolve seem to be very specifically related to Harley's engineering more than anything that exists in the IED's. There was no issue with the 08 fly-by-wire bikes, but a major issue with the 09 bikes. But the NHTSB (FEDS) have even noted a few inconsistencies. H-D has a great QA program, but occasionaly something can sneak through. I think this is one of those cases. I'm a computer engineer by trade, so I've got some strong speculation on what happened. I've even talked with some Electrical Engineers about this and there is some general consensus on what is probably wrong. But we are not H-D.

As far as your oil temperatures being in the 180-200 range, this is actually the minimum temp the oil must achieve to drive moisture out of the oil. Oil temps in the 220-250 range are really not that unusual for these bikes. The recommendation for all late model H-D is to use synthetic engine oil.

So I can offer my assistance in trying to help you get your bike as cool as possible without any tuning aids. Maybe through the forum a few more we can come up with a few more ideas for keeping the 09 Touring bikes cool without any engine tuners. I wish I could offer the AFXiED to riders today, but I would rather be conservative in my approach with my products to riders. Occasionally I may make some "early release" versions available if I feel something is ready for riders that are willing to report back to me on a regular basis (to assist in my quality assurance process). I am not there yet.
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby ralph on Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:01 am

Steve, thanks for the quick reply. My main concern is the pinging I am getting. This has occurred after using 93 octane from several different gas stations. I would not say that it is chronic, just when I roll on the throttle fairly hard. I carry a hand held IR[?] pistol type thermometer with me, for the time being, but do not know what is an acceptable head temperature or where on the heads to check it. Any ideas? This scooter has over 12K miles on it and I use Mobile One 20W/40 synthetic. Love the bike. Also, Can you give us any general idea as to what the ECM issues might be with the 09's? This is my second post ever to any forum, so I apologize ahead of time for form, spelling, or grammar errors. They didn't have these computer gadgets when I was growing up! Thanks again.
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby spmullen on Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:07 am

There seem to be some "floating ground" issues with the 09 FLH's. The 08 Touring bikes do not exhibit the same issues. I am not an Electrical Engineer, but I do have a Computer Science Degree, so I am fairly good at guessing at what might be going on. Because of the codes that are being generated by the ECM, the ground has to be floating. I also know that H-D is being very emphatic about teaching mechanics about clean/dirty grounds on the 09 Touring bikes, something they did not stress on the 08 bikes. So something different is going on. ECM's are sensitive, but should not be quite that sensitive because the motorcycle environment is inherently hostile to start with. So I have to believe that H-D tried to improve something and did not quite get the result that they wanted.

This is all my opinion and can not be substantiated by anything other than circumstantial evidence.
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby ralph on Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:12 am

I hope the ground issue does not show up on my bike. Any preventative things that can be done? Also, where would you check head temperature on this bike? What temperature would you consider too high? Thanks again!
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby spmullen on Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:36 pm

Nothing for you to worry about. Only external electronics tend to make the issue show up.
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby ralph on Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:57 pm

Great news on the ground issue. Where do you measure cylinder head temperature and what temp. should be considered too high?
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby spmullen on Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:16 pm

Most riders measure the head temperature at either side of the spark plugs with an IR gauge. I have never purposely taken an engine to the point that I knew it was overheating and then measured the temperature at that point on the heats. But I have measure the temperature on a normally running bike at that point of the heats at 380-400F. So it does get quite warm.
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby whittlebeast on Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:00 am

I have only heard from a very reliable source the TTS has not been able to decode (for lack of a better term) the 2009 touring bike ECU. They do know that is is different than the 2008 code. TTS's only option has been to go back to the erlier 2008 code when you reprograme with a 2009 with a SERT. It appears that the SEST is the only clean option at tuning a 2009 bike. The last time I looked at the SEST software, you could not see the 02 data and that would make tuning on of these bikes at home, very painfull at best. It can still be done with a duel sensor wideband. Steve at Nightrider can help you with that buy they are not cheep.

Good luck tuning one of these bikes. The SEST and ToBeFrank doing the midrange and timing my be you only good choice and good luck on doing the top end.

Sorry

Andy W
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby ToBeFrank on Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:46 am

whittlebeast wrote:The last time I looked at the SEST software, you could not see the 02 data and that would make tuning on of these bikes at home, very painfull at best. It can still be done with a duel sensor wideband. Steve at Nightrider can help you with that buy they are not cheep.

Good luck tuning one of these bikes. The SEST and ToBeFrank doing the midrange and timing my be you only good choice and good luck on doing the top end.


To be clear, MyTune will tune the same 85% that the TTS VTune does. Neither product will do the top end. The top end can be approximated by extending the tuned areas and will likely be close enough for most riders. 90% of the riding done will be in the tuned areas.
MyTune tuning software for SE Super Tuner (SEST), SE Race Tuner (SERT), and TwinScan II+: http://www.tunemyharley.com
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby WEINERDOGBONE on Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:14 pm

[quote="spmullen"]We have not certified the IED's for the 09 Touring bikes. While there is a lot of promise in the new AFXiED, we are very conservative in our testing program. [quote="spmullen"]

Hi Steve and others. I am new here but I have been using your information from the Nighrider site succesfully for a while. I traded off my carbureted Softail a few months ago for an 09 Touring bike. I have been patiently waiting for news on the release of your IED'S for the 09 Touring models and I wondered if you could give an update as to how your testing is going. Has there been progress towards certifying the IED's for the new Touring bikes?

Thank you for all the carb/bike building advice over the years.
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby spmullen on Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:13 pm

Nothing new as of yet.
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby Ridinsince65 on Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:07 pm

I have a 2010 FLHX and also have a EFI Race Fueler model 32136-06A. I have not tired it on the bike would like some feedback first will it work on the new ECM?

Riley
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Re: 2009 FLHX fuel adjuster

Postby spmullen on Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:35 pm

I have some new ideas to try on the 2009 Touring bikes based on the new issue discovered in the HD ECM and wiring harness connectors. I hope to know something in within 60 days.

I am also working on XiED and AFXiED that will work on the 2010 HD Touring bikes. I have preliminary information that indicates the AFXiED is a very accurate way to adjust the closed loop fuel mixture on the 2010 Touring bike heated O2 sensors. Initially I will sell an adapter cable to allow the current products to work on the new sensors.

So progress is being made on the 2009 Touring bikes and I hope to have 2010 Touring bikes covered very soon.
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